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LM 10 | Psychology Of Clothing

 

Your clothes are more than just layers of cloth on the skin. They can be as protective as armor or as freeing as your own self-expression. Suffice it to say, how you dress affects your life in all aspects—personally, professionally, emotionally, and even spiritually. In this highly inspirational episode, Tanya Memme sits down with Jen Principe, a soul stylist with a sole purpose: to change lives through the power of clothing. Jen dives deep into The Psychology Of Clothing: HOW AND WHY LOOKING FABULOUS CAN AND WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE!

In this conversation, she tells us about her own rock bottom and how clothing saved her soul. Her life story begins as a child dealing with abuse, abandonment, and neglect. Through the magic of dressing up, and becoming “someone else” for a moment, she found her “happy place.” It was then she realized the profound gift that clothing is and that we have the ability to change our lives through the way we dress. Jen takes us on an incredible soul-centered journey and the magic of dressing up as a child and how that began to shape her life as a teenager and an adult.

Jen is the CEO of JP Styles and the creator of a brand-new styling platform, the Wardrobe Wisdom Club. She is a wife and mother of two boys and is the author of A Common Thread: A Fashion for the Soul Book. She devotes much of her time to helping anyone who needs to reconnect to who they truly are through clothing. With her non-profit, The Phoenix Effect, she curates transformational photoshoots for people suffering from life-debilitating diseases and trauma.

Watch the episode here

 

The Psychology Of Clothing: HOW YOU DRESS CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE! BIG TIME! With Jen Principe

Jen Principe – Los Angeles clothing Stylist / Author / CEO – Changes Lives Through Clothing!

This is a very special episode for many reasons. I have a very good friend of mine, Jen Principe, here with me. She’s incredible. We’re going to talk all about her in this episode. I also want to get in and mention that now, I am at a studio, Play Studios. This is a very special place. This is the first episode of the show that I’ve had in a studio. They’re based in Los Angeles, and they’re absolutely incredible here. They rent out the studios for anyone else out there that wants to have their show here too. We’re going to get on with the show. Jen, thanks for coming here.

Tanya, thank you for inviting me. I’m so excited to get to know you a little better, share my story, and devirginize this space. I’m very excited. Thank you.

Thanks for coming. We have mutual friends. We’ve known each other for a little while. What I love most about you is that you’re a fashion stylist, but you’re known as a soul stylist. You style with soul. Your main reason for doing this is you have a purpose to change lives through clothing. I want to start off with that.

I did not always consider myself a soul stylist. When I first got into the business, I was just a fashion stylist.

Yeah, but you put your soul into it.

I think it’s more than just putting soul into it. It’s listening to my soul’s calling. That’s why I called myself a soul stylist because once I started doing the work and watching the transformations, birthing my nonprofit, and diving deeper into the meaning and the messages behind clothing and how they impact our lives, that’s when I realized that I have been put here to not just do a job. This is my assignment in life. That’s why I called myself a soul stylist with a sole purpose. That’s to transform lives from the outside in.

Also, you launched your book. You’re an author as well. That was a few years ago.

No. It was less than that. It was six months ago.

I was invited to your book launch party. It feels like it was so long ago.

It took me two years to write the book and I will say that I channeled the book. I didn’t write the book. I think this was my purpose. I needed to get my story out there and I was able to intertwine my own life and what I’ve been through in my own life along with fashion, which is unexpected and sort of birthed that into what I call a common thread. My debut book came out six months ago and it has been an amazing experience. It’s hard to though. Putting out a book is scary.

I know. I’m still working on mine. It’s been a few years now.

That’s okay. It happens when it happens.

What do you mean by you channeled your book?

I strongly believe that God channeled the book through me. I know that because I’m the least likely person to have written a book. If you dive into my story and you read my book, you will learn that my journey has been a very difficult one. I’ve pivoted in a lot of different directions. I’ve been arrested. I am the least likely person to channel a book.

Once I started recognizing the common threads in my own life, which is why I titled it A Common Thread. Once I opened the floodgates, it poured out of me. There were times that I woke up in the middle of the night. I’m a solid sleeper and nothing wakes me up. I would wake up at 1:00 in the morning, go downstairs, and write for six hours straight. It just poured out of me.

LM 10 | Psychology Of Clothing

A Common Thread: A Fashion for the Soul Book

You get this urge to be like, “I got to go write right now.”

I knew that along with my job and my assignment, this was another piece of the proverbial runway gown. It’s that piece that I needed to put into my life that is going to inspire people to look inward, not only at their wardrobe but a deeper meaning behind what your purpose is and what your soul calling is.

I do know a little bit about your life because we’ve talked about it before. I want everybody else to know too how this all started for you. I do want to talk about this. When was your rock bottom? On Life Masters, we talk about rock bottom and how you got there. What would you say? Paint a picture of the day when you were literally at your rock bottom and how you got yourself out of it.

I hit rock bottom as a young child and then again, as an adult. As a young child, I grew up in a very abusive alcoholic home. I used clothes to protect myself like a coat of armor. I used to go to the Jewish Federation with my grandmother. She would work there and I would rummage through things and play dress up. A child playing dress up adopts the characteristics of those said pieces of clothing. I would do that and pretend to be anybody but me. As a teenager, I used clothes to define me. I got very attached to labels and things. People can relate to that now with social media. It’s insane.

I see that all the time. People are very much defined by their clothing.

They are. As an adult, I used clothes to heal myself and others. I’ve had so many rock bottoms and we’re going to get to mine.

I have too, so I’m right there with you.

We’re going to get to my nonprofit. I named my nonprofit the Phoenix Effect because I think we all dive into the fire over and over again in our lives. We hit rock bottom and then we rebirth if we’re willing to. I’ve had many, but right when I wrote the book was that time when I knew I have more purpose and meaning in my life, and I need to dive into the fire, put myself out there, and step into my true self of why I’m here. I know exactly why I’m here now.

Are you allowed to a little bit talk about why you were at rock bottom and what your childhood was like?

I can talk about anything. It’s the purpose of putting the book out there. The hardest part about putting my book out there is because it was very vulnerable and real. My grandfather was the Chief Orthodox Rabbi of Los Angeles for 53 years. I came from a very religious black hat family. My mother left when I was six months old. The woman who came and stepped in was a housekeeper and pregnant at the time.

She raised me and I became very attached to her. My father had an affair with her, which we had to hide from my religious family. Within that, she discovered alcohol and drugs. I became the only person in the family that was physically and verbally abused, but it was typical abuse. It was this love-hate. I was very attached to her. She would act out when she would drink, and then she would pour love and affection back into my life.

It was difficult and I had to hide it from my orthodox family because if they knew, they would kick her out. I didn’t want to lose her. It was difficult. My teenage years were really hard. You have a daughter. How close are you guys? I look at you and I’m like, “This is the best,” but a young girl not having a mother is difficult.

I can’t imagine. My daughter is so sensitive. Everything I do and say affects her. I can’t imagine you as a 10 or 11-year-old girl going through that.

It was very difficult but I wouldn’t change a thing. It makes me who I am now. I realized that everything that has happened in my life has given me the wisdom that I’m able to pass on to other people to give them the courage to go through hard things and to know that trauma is not a destination. It’s part of our journey. We have a responsibility if we have the courage to share that with people so that we can inspire people to know that we can get through hard things. We can do this.

LM 10 | Psychology Of Clothing

Psychology Of Clothing: Everything that has happened in my life has given me the wisdom that I’m able to pass on to other people to give them the courage to go through hard things and know that trauma is not a destination. It’s part of our journey.

 

As a teenager, what was it like?

It was horrible. I think that was my low. I remember going to my girlfriends’ houses and seeing the connection between the mother and daughter, and going into the bathroom and crying all the time. Even getting my school supplies as a kid, I had to take the bus alone. I was never prepared for school. It was like they would give you this list. I didn’t know what to get and I would always show up unprepared. I fell behind in school because of it. That’s when I started as a teenager getting into trouble, ditching school, trying drugs, stealing, and getting caught shoplifting.

At that time, were you living with your mom?

No. My mom left when I was six months old. My father raised me and my three brothers, two biological, and then my younger brother who my father took in. He’s my brother. I don’t think of him any less than a brother, even though we’re not blood-related because he’s my brother. I have three brothers. It was predominantly males my whole life, and my mom came in and out. I have a relationship with my mother now. There’s a great chapter in my book. It’s the last chapter of my book.

My book is inspirational stories that have happened throughout my life that all have a common thread of either faith or fashion. It’s how the universe, my soul, or God, spoke to and through me. It’s these serendipitous events that have happened throughout my life. In the very last chapter, I wasn’t going to write about my mother because we’d had a difficult time reconnecting. I held a lot of resentment toward her. I blamed her for everything.

That’s until I did the work and went through it. I held my child when he was six months old. I remember this moment so vividly. I was holding him. I was in the rocking chair. It was 3:00 in the morning I was nursing him. I looked down and all of a sudden, I realized my mom is sick because you cannot leave a child unless you are spiritually or physically sick. That’s when something opened up. I did a lot of work.

Now, my mom and I have a relationship. For those of you who are going to read my book, A Common Thread, the craziest thing about this is that my mom and I were connected through clothing. My mom got a job for a men’s shirt line, which is one of the brands that I still sell today to men, and asked me to be a model. I modeled and I had to go to Vegas with her and I had a room with her. We went into the room together and I was nervous. I’d never been away from my mom. It was awkward.

She pulled out this little Parisian doll and said, “I’ve been saving this for you.” She said, “I named her Amy. Amie in French means friends and could we start out by being friends?” The door opened but I ended up calling her as I was writing the book. I said, “What do my grandfathers do?” It’s because I had no idea. She is like, “I never told you this. Your grandfather worked for Kaplan and Elias in the fashion department. Your great-grandfather started a line of clothing called Copycat, which is little girls’ dresses.

I think I know that line.

It’s American Doll now. Fashion has been in my blood. I had no idea. That’s the closing chapter of my book.

You were raised in this and you had a rough childhood. What was that? Everybody that I’ve interviewed in the show has that one day and that one moment where there was either something that happened, someone said something, or someone did something, or there’s that opportunity that they took advantage of where everything started to shift or change. Do you recall that one moment?

There is not one in particular. There was one time I know that propelled me forward into writing the book. It’s in my book. There’s a story about it where I met a monk. We had another housekeeper that came and lived in my home and my father had an affair with her as well. She ended up stealing from me and I found all of my clothes.

I have pistanthrophobia, the fear of trusting people. My husband and I renewed our vows. We were away and I got these beautiful necklaces made for my husband and my two sons. We did a spiritual ceremony and I was convinced that if they didn’t hide them, they would be stolen because that’s what happened to me my whole life. Things were always stolen for me.

I happened to meet this monk who was making a mandala. It’s all in the book. It’s so interesting. In the end, I was fascinated with his wardrobe, his Kasaya robes, and the simplicity of his life. We ended up having this conversation. I said to him that I have a fear of putting out my book and that somebody’s going to steal it from me, steal my concepts and my ideas. It was a real fear of mine.

He talked me through it and he basically taught me about being attached to the outcome of things and that we need to trust and let go. That’s when I literally watched the mandala. They destroyed the mandala at the end. These bits of pieces sort of flew away. I imagined my fear floating away. You say pen to paper, but nobody does that anymore. I started typing away. I think that’s one pivotal moment in my life when I propelled forward and went, “This is something I have to do.”

We need to trust and let go. Click To Tweet

When you say that you did the work, I feel like that’s when the work started because you had a massive realization at that moment. If you want to get onto your non-profits, I’m trying to talk about that which we’ve had conversations about before and it’s amazing. What are some of the works that you did? Just so we can share about it with people that are at their rock bottom. What are some things that you did to get out?

A lot of prayers. I think that faith practiced with prayer is very powerful. I did a lot of prayers, even as a child. I’ve been using the F-word since as far back as I can remember. It’s not that F-word. It’s faith and falling to my knees and praying. Prayer has always been in my life. I’ve done a lot of therapy. I did this thing called the Hoffman. I’ve done a lot of different modalities to try to heal.

Coming from ten generations of rabbis who literally dissect the Bible, I think it’s in my blood of wanting to grow. I’ve learned so many valuable lessons and virtues of life through these unique stories that have a common thread of wardrobe in them. It’s crazy. You think something so material wouldn’t have this depth to it. I do believe that there is space in the spiritual realm for the material world too. That’s why I’m here. I want to teach people the balance of the two.

There is space in the spiritual realm for the material world too. Click To Tweet

You do have that balance. I followed you on social media too. I love your social media posts and everything. You are not only dressed to the nines, but you’re also very spiritual. You’re very grounded and it’s beautiful to see. You’re not all about what’s on the outside.

Thank you. I’ve been judged my entire life. I’m sure you have too, right?

Totally. There are always people that don’t know who we are. They don’t know us and our lives. It’s easy to judge people that are on camera and in the public eye.

If there are two axioms that ring true, it’s that we rarely know what goes on behind closed doors or what somebody has been through in their lives. We just don’t that we don’t know. We then get to know somebody and we’re like, “I had no idea. I’m sorry I judged you.”

We all do it sometimes, but it’s very interesting. I do want to talk about your nonprofit because it warms my heart.

Mine too.

It’s so amazing what you do.

Thank you.

You curate photo shoots with people that are either in a situation where they have some kind of an illness or anything. They’ve hit rock bottom and it completely transforms their lives. Let’s get into that and I know you have a wonderful story that you told me about.

My nonprofit was another pivotal event when I was at rock bottom. I had two sons and I love my boys, but I knew I was going to have boys. I just knew it. My boys were getting older and I was afraid that they were going to leave and we weren’t going to be as close because you always hear that the daughters stay close to their mothers, and then the boys move away from home and leave their moms.

I was out on a run one day, which is where I need to be a lot of the time. It’s out in nature where I get channeled. I was going down this pity party of my boys are going to leave and I’m going to be lonely. All of a sudden, it hit me. It was like, “Stop. What can you do for somebody else?” It’s because the way out of self is into service. That has served me so well because I can go down that rabbit hole of like, “I’m not good enough.” You know the drill.

The way out of self is into service. Click To Tweet

It’s tough. We’re so hard on ourselves.

I started going down this rabbit hole and I got this message. I like to call the message a GOD shot. If you’re tuning in and you don’t like the word GOD, you don’t have to use that word. GOD is an acronym for Good Orderly Direction. That’s the way I look at it. I got this message from the universe, my soul, or whatever it was. It was like, “What can you do for somebody else?”

I remembered this little girl in my neighborhood who was struggling with cancer at the time. A friend of mine was a singer and she would go sing to her. One of the things I love to do is curate photo shoots because I get to visualize from the flowers to the backgrounds. I can put the whole picture together. I thought, “What if I do a photo shoot and give this little girl a day of respite.”

Were you a photographer? Did you know how to use a camera?

No. My husband is a photographer. I dragged him in, which has been such a beautiful experience for my whole family because now as a family, we all participate in this. I called this girl and I said, “How well do you know this little girl?” She said, “I don’t know her well but I know her parents. I’m going to send you their phone number. I love your idea, Jen. Give them a call.”

I picked up the phone and I called. I said, “Hi, Jeff.” I didn’t have his last name. I said, “My name is Jen. I live in the West. I got your name from so-and-so. I’m a stylist. I was wondering, with no fee involved, I would love to give back this gift that I’ve been given and give your daughter a day to feel pampered like a princess and give her a little photo shoot?” He goes, “Is this Jen Principe?” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “This is Jeff. Jeremy’s first baseball coach.” He was my son’s first baseball coach and I got chills. That’s why I call it a GOD shot. It’s like serendipity. When you’re in service, doors open and things just flow.

They do when you know that you are going in the right direction.

She was my first. She was six at the time. What I did was this photo shoot. We changed her outfit. I made her look perfect and styled. I created a coffee table memorial book to give to the parents. It was when the parents opened up the book and they started crying that I realized, “This is powerful for the families.” It used to be called Pretty in Pink because I was pretty in pink as a kid. It grew. I would get phone calls. “I don’t have cancer but I have cerebral palsy. Does that count,” or, “I got your name from so-and-so and I’m suffering from this,” or “I was in a car accident.”

I then started doing adults and that’s when I realized that when you go through illness and trauma, you lose parts of your identity during that process. The last thing you want to do is do your hair and do your makeup. You just don’t want to do that. There’s also a beauty in it that you get down to your core and you’re so thankful for being alive that you don’t want to be thinking about the material. As I said, there is space and transformation. I know this working with my clients. The self-esteem that my clients have, whether they’re business moguls or stay-at-home moms, it doesn’t matter where you are on the ladder. That transformation or that mindset is big.

It’s everything. Mindset is everything.

I changed the name to the Phoenix Effect because the metaphorical phoenix dives into the ashes and is birthed anew. I believe that we are all a part of the phoenix journey. I’ve done it so many times in my own life where I have to take that risk and dive in. For some people, it’s divorce or leaving a job.

It’s all kinds of stuff.

Also, starting over, illness, or whatever it is. We all have a responsibility to use our gifts and our talents to help that phoenix rise, just by being a good listener or you doing these interviews and sharing people’s stories so that they can get out there and educate other people or be inspired. It’s all about that. It’s called the Phoenix Effect. It’s all on my website. My website is JPStyles.com. It’s under the Phoenix Effect. You can see these transformations are remarkable. That’s the other reason I’m here. I feel like between my book, my story, and my nonprofit, general styling is so much fun. I love what I do.

You’ve been on television and all kinds of different shows on TV. I know you’re on the Hallmark channel. You’re on Inside Edition. You’re on all kinds of stuff. You do the segments at KTLA.

I’m going to be on KTLA in a few weeks. That will be fun. The Power of Personal Presentation. I always say, “Don’t judge a book by its cover and we should get a more holistic view of a person before we judge,” but that’s not realistic. The truth of the matter is we’re visual and we judge very quickly. Decorating the cover of your own book is important. It can open up a lot of opportunities for you to meet people.

What you do is so powerful, especially for people that have gone through a divorce and need to reinvent themselves or they need to start a new job or they need this or that. Redoing your wardrobe and presenting yourself to the world is one of the most powerful things and changes that you can make for somebody.

Most of the time, people don’t like fashion because they don’t know how to do it. Anything that I don’t know how to do, I tend not to like. I go in and I start working with somebody. It’s funny that you say that because I get a lot of calls from newly divorced couples, men and women. We know subconsciously that if we feel good about what we’re wearing, we present ourselves in a different way. We walk in a little taller. We feel more confident. We know that. Kids role-play at a very young age. It’s brilliant because what they’re doing is they’re ascribing to the meaning behind clothes.

I always talk about Sex and the City. You have four different characters depicting that are wearing different types of clothing. Without even the use of verbal communication, you look at them and you automatically know, “I get their vibe.” You’ve got Sexy Samantha. You’ve got Happy Charlotte, Fashionista Carrie, and then Miranda. You’ve got all these different characters. Clothes can tell so much about us without the use of verbal communication.

That is very true.

I think what we put on our bodies can absolutely shift our mindset. I know when I don’t feel good about something that I’m wearing. I don’t always feel good and I make fashion faux pas. I walk into the room feeling a little less than.

I would love to wear one of your fashion faux pas because your fashion faux pas would be my best day fashion-wise.

I should do a post on my fashion faux pas so people see, “She was stretching there.” That’s not a tattoo. That’s a motto that I have. Clothing is not a tattoo. It is not permanent. It’s the one area in our lives where we have control. We have control over so many things. It should be fun. It could be powerful.

It’s all of those things. What do you say to people who feel like they can’t afford it?

I don’t think you need to spend a fortune to look great. I do my T.J. Maxx runs. I love it.

You work with all kinds of clients.

Here’s one of the cool things that I developed that’s in my book. I have the first scannable QR code that leads the reader to a platform that is free on how to find your fashion vibe, and it builds your wardrobe from the ground up. It covers body types, color theory, and everything you can think of from accessories.

You created this, didn’t you?

I created it and there are clickable links where you can purchase things at a high price point and a low price point. For people that don’t know how, find a good salesperson that you trust and educate yourself. I talk about how to style stock on Instagram. How to look at a photo and see if this particular style works for you. Sometimes I’ll see things and I’ll be like, “I love that.” but you have to wear your hair down in the middle slicked back. I never do that. That’s not going to look good on me. It’s how you dissect a photo and find a style that resonates with you and fits your lifestyle. It’s called the Wardrobe Wisdom Club and it’s free.

LM 10 | Psychology Of Clothing

Psychology Of Clothing: It’s how you dissect a photo and find a style that resonates with you and fits your lifestyle.

 

You have to have her book first.

No, you don’t. You can go on to my website and you can join for free.

It is at the back of your book too, right?

It’s throughout my book. One of the things I wanted to do in my life is to provide a platform for people that can’t afford the luxury of a personal status because it’s expensive. You don’t have to spend a fortune. There are certain areas that I think you should spend a little bit more because they’re classics and they will last you a long time like outerwear, bags, and shoes. I’m a Zara fanatic, and my T.J. Maxx runs are super fun.

Maybe we’ll have to go on T.J. Maxx run. I would love that.

We should do that.

Let’s do that. I would love that. We’ll record it all. For the people out there that are going through a tough time. I know that you have completely found your purpose which is unbelievably amazing but a lot of people are struggling. To have a purpose in life is one of the biggest gifts that you could ever experience and have. What would you say to some people that are struggling out there that don’t know what their purpose is?

I get people coming out to me all the time and they’re like, “I need something to do. I feel like I have no purpose.” My first thing is your purpose doesn’t have to be huge. People think, “I have to do something that is so big,” and they don’t. If you are an amazing listener, it is one way to be of service to somebody. It’s to be somebody who can listen. My answer is always to be of service.

If you can find something that you are good at, like what you’re doing right now, and be of service, shine a light on somebody else and their journey, you’re making a difference. It doesn’t matter how many. It matters the impact that you could have on one person. It’s finding what you love and being of service to others and you will find your purpose. I believe that.

LM 10 | Psychology Of Clothing

Psychology Of Clothing: If you can find something that you are good at and be of service and shine a light on somebody else and their journey, you’re making a difference.

 

Once you start down that road of service, it does always open up doors to then finding your true purpose. It does for so many people that I’ve interviewed.

I do think that and I also think we need to quiet our minds a bit because we’re so on the phone and distracted. Rarely do we know our unique design until we’re able to recognize the common threads, which is why I named it A Common Thread. When you’re able to see these messages that are coming at you and you’re able to see those and go, “Why does this keep happening to me? What’s the message I’m trying to get through this?” When we quiet our minds, then it can unfold. That’s at least what it did for me through wardrobes.

I can imagine you help your clients from the inside out too. It’s not just about clothing and putting on the right clothes. There’s so much more that they get when they work with you. I know that you put your whole heart into it.

I do love what I do. I’ve had incredible clients. I’ve learned so much. It’s an intimate space to have somebody come into your wardrobe. I’ve had people open up, break down, and cry. I’m able to then pass on some of the wardrobe wisdom I’ve learned along the way.

I’m about halfway through your book right now. I’m going to keep on reading the second half. It is amazing. I’ve been brought to tears during parts of it. It’s a journey that you take the reader on and I learned a lot.

I’ve pivoted in so many different directions. The other thing is if you haven’t found your purpose and you’re in your 50s, 60s, and 70s, it’s totally fine. I didn’t find my purpose until probably the Phoenix Effect. My purpose is still unfolding. My book was part of my purpose. We don’t just have one. My purpose was to be a mother. That was my purpose for a while. That was my soul. That was where all my energy went. Also, to be a wife and to do the work. It’s going through all these different streets.

It’s also noticing them when they’re there and not putting too much pressure on yourself along the way.

I think we put so much pressure on ourselves.

Yes, but I love everything that you’re doing. Keep on going, please.

Thank you, Tanya. I appreciate you having me and letting me channel because it’s not about me and I have to remember that too. I have to do a lot of prayer on that. I can’t let my ego get in the way. I have to let my purpose here speak and shine through because it’s not about me.

Don’t let your ego get in the way. Let your purpose speak and shine through because it's not about you. Click To Tweet

I think you do. You can tell in your book and in the way that you work with your clients. That’s why I have you here on the show because I knew that was all a part of you. Thank you for your time and for coming to the show. Thank you very much.

Can you plug my Instagram?

Before we stop, let us know everywhere and anywhere we can see and contact you.

One thing I want to talk about is Instagram. I am dying to be able to talk about staying small because of your Instagram. I have run up against this so many times, which is why I’m so thankful you had me here. I did not go into Instagram for a long time because I thought it was shallow. I didn’t realize it was a business. Now, I have something I need to get out into the world and I’m being turned down a lot because my Instagram is not big enough. My Instagram is @JenPrincipeStyles. Help me spread the message. It is hard and there are times when I’m like, “Forget it. I’m shutting this whole thing down,” but I’m not shutting it down.

I have a resume this long. I’ve been on television for this many years, but none of that matters unless you have over a million followers on Instagram. I’m still working.

You matter, Tanya.

Yes, I do matter.

You’ve done a lot of stuff.

It’s not all about Instagram. It is something. Thank you so much for coming on the show and please follow Jen on Instagram.

Bye, everyone.

 

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